[RUSH TRANSCRIPT BELOW] Leonardo da Vinci once wrote that the key to developing a “complete mind” was to “study the science of art. Study the art of science. Learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.”

In 2009, Sherry Zhang and a group of dedicated California parents who were disillusioned with the schools in their area decided to co-found an academic institution that would put this philosophy into practice.

A former Silicon Valley entrepreneur and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory postdoctoral chemist, Zhang shares her unexpected journey from working in a garage tech start up to being a founding member of a classical academy.

In this episode, Zhang discusses the core philosophy behind classical education—built upon three tenets: truth, goodness, and beauty. She reveals how intensive training in classical Chinese dance, ballet, visual arts, and music causes students to develop habits of perseverance, focus, and attentiveness that transfer to academics.

In an age dominated by instant gratification and digital distraction, Zhang explains how the structure of classical arts provides order that children long for.

One student, Hugo, came to the San Francisco High School of the Arts unable to focus and with failing grades. After one year at the school, he began to prosper academically, and his mother was stunned. His story is just one among many, Zhang says.

Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

RUSH TRANSCRIPT

Creativity doesn’t come at random; it actually comes from structure. You need all the tools before you can create.

Jan Jekielek:

Today I sit down with the co-founder of the San Francisco High School of the Arts, Sherry Zhang.

Ms. Zhang:

Classical education has many elements. Seeking truth and goodness is one part of it, and another part is beauty. When the kids learn to see beauty, they really learn to see harmony, and they learn to see order. When they learn to seek beauty, they also learn to seek the truth. This classical school uniquely integrates both fine arts and performing arts into its classical curriculum.

Mr. Jekielek:

I understand you’re starting a grade school as well.

Ms. Zhang:

Yes. Today we’re going to have a performance. All the students get to showcase what they worked so hard for one semester to let their parents see their achievements so they can see, wow, through my hard work, I actually can get here. That grit, that hardworking spirit, is developed little by little. So we have a 100 percent graduation rate. And out of 15 years, 95 percent of our students got into the top 100 universities.

Here at our school, you are now looking at this incredibly beautiful doorway. This is actually a traditional character of art, and we use it as a logo, Yi in Chinese. It’s a complicated character because Chinese culture is very spiritual. Let me explain it to you.

So this part is actually the cloud, and this is actually 土, it’s the soil, it signifies the soil, it’s the character of the soil. And above it, see this is actually 草字頭, it’s the grass and flowers grow above the soil, in the soil, above the clouds. And this part is, the One, which is like alchemy, refining things. So that actually talks a little bit about the whole meaning of art in the traditional Chinese way: that you grow things above the clouds and connect heaven and earth with art. And art takes great work, a lot of work, hard work. It’s like refining it and growing flowers in the soil above the cloud. So some really beautiful meaning of the art, and that’s why we use it as our logo. Now,

Mr. Jekielek:

Tell me your view on the benefits of a classical education.

Ms. Zhang:

Wow, there are a lot of benefits and a lot of stories to tell, but let me tell you one story, Hugo’s story. So Hugo’s family came to us a few years ago, and because of work, they relocated to San Francisco. So they had a really bright daughter come into our high school, and she also has a son, Hugo. I asked Hugo’s mother, how about your son? And the mom said, maybe he has to go to a specialized school. I said, why?

She told me that they went to many schools because of work. They went to Mongolia, they went to Hong Kong, they went to Europe, and other countries. But all the schools were basically telling her at the end that her son needed some medication, and he needed to be taking some drugs. Otherwise, he had no focus. He cannot sit still, so he cannot really learn.

So I looked at his transcript. It’s mostly D’s and F’s. So the mom didn’t think that he would fit in our school, but I told her that let’s give him a try. So he tried out for one day, and I asked the mom, how did it go? The mom said that he’s a bit tired, but he seemed calm. He was doing well, so we let him continue for a week. At the end of the week, the mom said, he seems to have changed a little bit more. He seems to be able to focus a little bit, so he'll keep going for a month. Every day he actually took the classical Chinese dance routines, their routines. He practiced stretching routines and then tumbling.

At the end of the month, we invited the mom to come in to watch him dance. The mom said, wow, he’s a really changed person because he’s very focused when he listens to the instructions. He remembers the routines, and his academics are also picking up. Academics in class initially, he was a little bit distracted; he couldn’t really focus. But the teacher actually gave him a lot of individualized attention because we have small classes.

At the end of the month, his test scores actually started to climb up. He’s learning. At the end of the year, his transcript becomes full of B’s and some A’s. Actually, it’s a really big improvement. At the end of the year, the mom said that everyone talks about education, but you guys really did it. I actually saw many stories like that. I witnessed them, and Hugo was one of them that really completely changed through this kind of education.

In classical education, there are many elements: truth, seeking truth, and by teaching academics, have rigorous standards, have high standards. Goodness is the other part of it. That’s really learning how to be kind, how to be good, and respectful of others. Another part is beauty. So all of this is part of the classical education that our school really offers. This is our model, and this is how we teach our kids.

Mr. Jekielek:

And the beauty, I suppose, that’s enacted in that way the Chinese dance is done, or is that, explain to me a little more how that fits into education, because I don’t know if everybody thinks about that when they think about education necessarily.

Ms. Zhang:

In classical education, it doesn’t matter whether it’s Western or Chinese. It doesn’t matter if it’s the ancient Greeks or the European academies, the great academies and Chinese traditional education all talk about beauty. Beauty is a big part of education because when kids learn to see beauty, they really learn to see the harmony, and they learn to see the order. They also learn to seek the truth.

We teach ballet, we teach classical Chinese dance, we teach the visual arts of drawing and painting, and we also teach music. All of these disciplines are actually training them to really see the beauty and really learn to persevere. They really see that, wow, after I learn this, there’s much more I can learn. I can see the progress I’m making through hard work. And that’s what that part of the training is.

Mr. Jekielek:

Well, something that struck me about Hugo’s example is something like he needed a certain kind of structure, clearly, like he needed a lot of structure. And I guess you figured out how to provide that for him. Can you tell me a little bit more about that and how that fits into classical education?

Ms. Zhang:

Yes, our training, our teaching, actually is very structured here, especially in the arts, like classical Chinese dance or ballet. There’s always a fundamental class, so it’s always practicing routines. They practice every day, but our teachers learn to actually have the skill, not just make it structured, but also you have to make it fun. Otherwise, kids are not going to do it, right? Nowadays, with a lot of children, everything is instant. When they want something, they want it instantly. And when they want something, they get it instantly.

Classical art actually invites them to slow down. Slow down everything they do.They will actually see that I need to pay attention to details, and there is a structure. When a teacher teaches, there’s also structure, and they teach you the principle first, and you practice, and you imitate first, and then because you need all the tools before you can create. So their creativity doesn’t come from random; it actually comes from structure. So once they get the basics down, that’s when they really can create.

Mr. Jekielek:

So I happen to know that you were once a Silicon Valley entrepreneur, you know, a tech head. I don’t know what to call it. How is it that you ended up changing tracks and running a classical education school?

Ms. Zhang:

My background is in chemistry. I have a math degree, but my PhD is in chemistry. I was doing my postdoc at Lawrence Berkeley National Lab. I was helping the three big car companies and the Department of Energy to develop electric vehicles and hybrid electric vehicles. The crucial part is the chemistry part. It’s at the core, that battery chemistry. So I was working on that very happily.

Later on, I also attempted to work in the synchrotron in Berkeley to study a lot of chemicals. I loved the research. At the same time, late at night, when I’m there by myself, I start to think, do I want to live my life this way? I love people. So I wanted to really maybe do something that I can interact with people, not just chemicals.

It happened to be at that time, the U.S. was switching from analog to digital TV, so I saw the opportunity to develop my own converter that converts analog to digital. Actually, it started in a garage. It was a little garage project. Later on, it became very successful.

Mr. Jekielek:

I mean, this is how it always is in Silicon Valley, isn’t it?

Ms. Zhang:

That’s right. A little garage project, yes. And it became, actually, we were very lucky. Somehow, Consumer Reports rated our product one of the top products in the category, among the big brand names. We got a lot of business and we did very well. Right around that time, after we really made it, some of my friends came to me. They’re like, how about looking into getting a school, establishing a school?

Because their children were looking for schools. And we were not happy about the schools in California. I’m a scientist. When I went  into a school, I saw that the students, especially high school students, lack energy. Lack of motivation and are a little bit depressed. So I, we were also planning on having a child. So I didn’t think that I wanted my child to go to a school like that. And I also, because I’m a scientist, I love doing research. So truth is very important.

Also, through some research, I noticed a lot of California schools really deviating from the truth. Truth is no longer part of it. So for me, that’s not acceptable. Really, kids have to learn math. If one plus one equals two, it can’t be three. There’s a lot of truth in science and math. We also want our kids to learn beauty as well.

From my research, it doesn’t really matter if it’s ancient Greek, Chinese, or European, art is very important. You know, the nobles in Europe really hired teachers into their homes to teach their kids how to draw, how to paint. It’s a very important part of education. So we want some schools like that, that really give our kids the best education possible, not just mediocre, or a little bit here and a little bit there, and it doesn’t matter what the truth is. We want them to grow up to be very smart, very educated, and able to contribute positively to our society.

Mr. Jekielek:

So just for full disclosure, are you a tiger mom?

Ms. Zhang:

That’s a good question. No, I’m not. But I think that our kids really need guidance from their parents, which is very important. You cannot just say kid-centered, right? Right now, a lot of people say student-centered. Yes, you need to take care of what would be best for them. But in the meantime, you need to provide a lot of guidance, really provide them a great education because they don’t know. We owe them that as parents.

Mr. Jekielek:

Okay, so you had the idea, you have your very successful business. So what happens? How did you actually take that step?

Ms. Zhang:

Yes, it’s a big step. Obviously, I had never run a school before, even though I had a lot of schooling, both PhD and postdoc. But I had never run a school before. So we did a lot of research, and we really think that a great model would be a school that has very rigorous academics. At the same time, it has art in the afternoon, really teaching them pre-professional level art, not just a little bit here, a little bit there. It’s really because through that training, students really learn grit. They really can develop grit and work hard and really see progress and develop that confidence and work together.

So we established from middle school all the way to high school, six to twelve. We’ve actually been around for 15 years. I’ve seen a lot of progress from our students. A couple of weeks ago, one of the moms just called us about this girl, Joy. She’s actually in her fourth year at Berkeley now. Her mom called because she’s so thankful and happy.

Joy is in engineering at Berkeley. So she just got an offer from a Big Tech company for a product management position. So it’s a high-salary, high-pay position. Mom’s very happy because the girl came into our school as a dancer. She was really lacking in a math foundation. But now she’s at Berkeley and did really well at Berkeley. Berkeley engineering is really hard to get into—only six percent get in.

Mr. Jekielek:

So, you know, I’m listening to you talk, and I’m thinking to myself how much I would have probably benefited from this kind of education when I was younger because I was one of these kids that, you know, I couldn’t learn it. Even though I had a good ear, I couldn’t learn a musical instrument because it required, you know, that grit, right? It was very hard because I would get distracted if I didn’t see the instant gratification, right? And it sounds like you’re teaching, you’re actually focusing at some level on teaching that and helping people be able to build incrementally, step by step, and achieve mastery of something. Am I getting that right?

Ms. Zhang:

That’s right. Actually, all classical arts are like that. In order to play an instrument, like you said, you have to learn little by little, all the time, making progress. And our teachers are very professional artists. At the same time, they know how to teach. They know how to encourage them, but the standard is there. They’re not losing their standards while encouraging them to get there.

Today, we’re going to have a performance, a big performance, right? All the students get to showcase what they worked so hard for one semester. They’re going to showcase, and they’re so proud to let their parents see their achievements. So we constantly are doing that so they can see, wow, through my hard work, I actually can get here. Really, that grit, that hardworking spirit is developed like that, little by little.

Mr. Jekielek:

Tell me a little bit more about what we’re going to see in the performance tonight. And also, as I understand it, you have a second part to your school because you actually have a part-time school program that just focuses on the arts or maybe specifically dance. I don’t know. You'll have to expand on that for me because we’re going to see a lot more than just the kids that are in your school, right?

Ms. Zhang:

We actually start from five-year-olds. So, five-year-olds can come in to learn dance. You can learn a little piano music, and then you also can learn drawing. So, we have our graduates this year. They started when they were five in our dance program. When they get to middle school, they come into our full-day school program, middle school program, and then all the way to graduate in high school.

In our after-school program, they learn dance maybe a couple of hours a week. But just from that couple of hours, you’re teaching them a lot about how to appreciate beauty. How do you work? You have to work hard to get to what you want to do. So they’re learning all of that, building that foundation early.

Tonight, you’re going to see great artwork once you walk into the lobby. And in the theater, you’re going to see music performances. You’re going to see a lot of dances, from five-year-olds all the way to 18. Different kinds of dances, and just really, really beautiful. While we’re talking right now, our students have already started the rehearsal at the Herbst Theater, and they are very busy preparing everything. When you go backstage, you can see students putting on makeup. They’re stretching, warming up, and walking onto the stage. Everything is very precise.

Mr. Jekielek:

And so the other thing is you’re a fairly small school at this point. I understand your ratio of teachers to students is pretty low, which is always a good thing. But explain to me how that works. And also, how many of your students that are in the after-school program are actually making it, becoming full-on students in middle school?

Ms. Zhang:

It’s hard to say. We certainly have a much bigger after-school program than our day school program. After all, we are self-funded. Basically, we’re a private school. Even though we’re a non-profit, we’re a private school, so there’s a corresponding tuition. But after school is much more affordable for everyone who can come in. We love to share that beauty with the whole community. So it’s a very affordable after-school program.

So there are some students who love our teaching model, when they can afford it, will come into our day school program. Tonight, you will see that we actually have fundraising, so that people can then support scholarships for the kids who cannot afford the tuition to come in to learn.

Mr. Jekielek:

I’m just trying to imagine, you know, when you started, obviously, was it just after-school programs? I don’t know. And how and where are we today? And where does it look like it’s going?

Ms. Zhang:

When we first started, we rented a place at Potrero Hill and we only had 14 students. The first day we started school, we only had 14. Now we have our own building right next to Golden Gate Park, and overall, we have more than 200 students. In the day school, we have slightly less than 60 students. So we’re definitely growing steadily—not very fast, but steadily.

Our focus has been trying to build a program, just like how we teach the students, right? Everything you do, you do it well. It’s the same with education. We need to make sure, because the parents trusted us with their children. So we’ve been focusing a lot on program quality and making sure it’s a small class because they have to be efficient. They’re spending two to three hours a day learning art. When you have a small class size, then the teacher can actually pay attention to each student, and can individualize it.

For example, I’m teaching chemistry. I love teaching chemistry. And we have debates. We have a lot of things going on in the classroom. We do labs and things.  I only have about 10 or 11 students in my class. So I can actually know where they are, and where they may be stuck, in which part, and I can actually address them for that. I can give them a little bit of individualized attention, so they don’t have to spend hours and hours learning on their own to really get there. So that’s why we always love keeping the small class size so that they can spend a lot of time in art, and at the same time, do excellent in academics.

Mr. Jekielek:

So, aside from tuition, what other sources of revenue do you have?

Ms. Zhang:

We have tuition from day school and also after school and summer. It’s really not easy to run a school because you have a lot of staff. We have so many teachers. But very importantly, some of the key positions, like me, I don’t draw a salary. And we have another teacher, actually our director, one of our directors also has a background in education from Cambridge and education from Beijing University.

She’s a great manager, but she’s also not drawing a salary because we recognize that school is not here to make a profit. And we have our other means to support us, so we don’t need to draw a salary from school. So the school is doing well just through tuition and fundraising. So that’s what we are here for; it’s for the education.

Mr. Jekielek:

I understand you feel like you’ve figured out the whole model now on how to do this education and you’re ready to scale. Are you going to be able to find the teachers to do this and even maintain that small class size?

Ms. Zhang:

Yes, definitely. Finding teachers has always been hard because not all teachers are necessarily so devoted, so dedicated. But we have always been looking for great teachers that have the quality because teachers are important. They have to be great role models. And at the same time, they have to be very experienced in their field and also can deliver. So it is very challenging to find good teachers.

And the nice thing about it is that most of our teachers, at least half of them, have been here for many, many years already. So our retention rate is very high because they love our kids. They love the education model, and teaching is more like a calling. It’s a calling. So you have to be thinking that this is something that is really worth it.

Mr. Jekielek:

So what’s the plan at this point? I understand you’re starting a grade school as well.

Ms. Zhang:

Yes, we started elementary school. Because actually, initially we thought middle school and high school are really great ages to have a school. But when we accept students coming in, some of our really talented pianists, for example, talented artists. For example, one child came into our school. We actually just started fifth grade, and he came in as a fifth-grade student.

He’s a really talented pianist. He can play so well, but his math is horrible. So I feel like that student is really lacking the proper foundations. That’s why we started—we’re starting next year—an elementary school because we want to make sure we teach them, give them great foundational academics, and also arts.

Mr. Jekielek:

You seem to be very committed to the school. Tell me a little bit about what inspired you.

Ms. Zhang:

Yes, I practice Falun Gong. It’s a very important part of why I started classical education, because of Falun Gong’s principles, truth, compassion, and tolerance. The first thing is truth. So it really fits my background as a scientist too. So seeking truth and teaching kids how to seek truth is a very big part of my belief. Of course, our school is not religious, but it’s important to appreciate the truth and appreciate classical education.

I started practicing Falun Gong when I was in graduate school. A friend of mine came to me and said, are you interested in this? It’s actually very interesting because when I was little, when I was little, I always thought that there’s something out there that I don’t know. Someone’s watching over me.

I grew up in communist China. My parents were atheists. They didn’t believe in anything. Okay, so I was always told that there’s nothing out there, and I cried. But then the next day I woke up and I said, no, they may be wrong, and I probably could find something. So I read a lot of Taoist books and Buddhist books.

One time, on our school field trip, we stayed in a temple overnight, and they have the nun’s place. So I stayed there overnight. I thought, wow, this is so quiet, so nice. But could I be a Chinese nun? And I thought, no, I need to take care of my parents. How could I do that? I cannot give up everything.

When I was in graduate school, I came in contact with Falun Gong. I thought, wow, this is something that I can do meditation. I can cultivate myself—self-improvement—without going to a temple. Wow, this is wonderful. There is something out there in the universe. It’s so much, and so profound.

When I was doing my PhD, I had to learn a lot of quantum physics and quantum chemistry. Things seemed very hard, but I spent days reading it and then I thought I got it. Academics to me is not that hard, but Falun Gong is so profound. There’s so much to learn about the universe. So, as a scientist, I got really, really interested.

I started the practice before the persecution in China in 1996. It’s been really wonderful and teaches me to be more like thinking for others instead of thinking for yourself. When you are a kind person, actually, you’re getting great returns. You understand more how the universe works. When you’re kind to the students, when you’re kind to kids, to anybody, they recognize that immediately. So, actually, it’s very powerful. I feel like it’s very beneficial in school to practice kindness. Even though we’re not religious, that power of kindness is strong.

Mr. Jekielek:

You have a very high graduation rate at the San Francisco High School of the Arts, as I understand it. Where do these kids go once they graduate?

Ms. Zhang:

We have a 100 percent graduation rate. And out of the 15 years, 95 percent of our students got into the top 100 universities. And a lot of them went to art universities. If they plan to go into any art universities, they actually, the top 15, they get in hands down. They never once get rejected by an art university when they apply. And then also we have students who went into ballet programs and ballet companies. And then also the Chinese classical dancers got accepted by Shen Yun Performing Arts.

They love auditioning for Shen Yun because it is one of the top classical Chinese dance companies. We’re very proud of them. We also have one student that plays erhu, a beautiful erhu player that also got accepted by Shen Yun. It’s a great accomplishment. We have two or three teachers, actually retired dancers from Shen Yun as a major.

Mr. Jekielek:

Tell me a bit more about the value of studying art.

Ms. Zhang:

There are a lot of great examples, and people have actually done a lot of studies, but of course it’s hard to get exact data, like what percentage you improve, right? But in general, I think most people would agree learning arts greatly improves the performance of students academically.

For example, Da Vinci has a famous quote, to develop a complete mind, study the science of art and study the art of science. So there’s actually science in art: proportion, light, and shadow. So all of that is the science behind the art. And there’s art behind science, and you see that with great scientists like Einstein, right?

Do you know that he’s actually a very great, accomplished violinist? Every time he developed something, he discovered something; it was through his playing the violin. So his relativity theory is really a beautiful theory with simplicity and harmony. So a lot of those things are really important in science.

There’s art in science as well. Did you know that the person who discovered the mountains on the moon is Galileo. Did you know that Galileo actually has an art background? He learned Renaissance art, the art in the Renaissance period, and classical art. He was observing the moon. Back then, he did not invent the telescope, but he used the telescope to look at the moon, and he identified those shadows. They are actually mountains because he draws, right?

He was a great artist himself; he recognized those shadows on the moon actually look like mountains, and from the telescope, he could immediately recognize those are mountains from his training. So that’s why he’s the first one to recognize that. Even though so many people looked through the telescope, they just thought that those may be clouds, this may be something. But he’s the one that recognized those are mountains, and he was absolutely correct. So you can see that actually by studying art, you can learn the skill of observing.

In fact, there was a research group at Michigan University. They studied all the scientists who won the Nobel Prize in the science category from 1900 to 2001. They actually concluded that if you study performing arts, you are 22 times more likely to get a Nobel Prize than scientists who did not study performing arts. If you study other kinds of arts, it also increases a certain percentage. So art really, in many ways, improves our students’ ability to learn academics.

Mr. Jekielek:

So that was an unbelievable experience, observing this dance performance, like, I couldn’t believe the level that some of these kids had, especially in dance. One of the better dancers I recognized is your son. I mean, you set out back in the day, you were thinking to yourself, I need to, you know, have a better school for my kid that isn’t even around yet, right? Like, this is what you’re telling me. So what does it feel like for your kid to be, like, I guess, I think one of the top dancers. That’s what it looked like to me.

Ms. Zhang:

Yes. My son, when he was 12, he actually got the national title for the intermediate level in the U.S.

Mr. Jekielek:

For classical Chinese dance, right?

Ms. Zhang:

For classical Chinese dance, yes. This is national for an open category. I think that I definitely see a lot of results from our training. So I’m very proud of him. But from tonight’s show, I’m actually proud of every single child, every single student, because you can see on their face the joy, and you can see how hard they’ve been trying. And you can see a lot of progress in their work. From four-year-olds all the way to 18, you see them, they just really enjoy it and really try hard.

At the end of the show, I really feel a lot of hope. My heart is filled so much with hope because that’s our youth, that’s our next generation. They’re working so hard, and they know that hard work will produce success. Because of the beauty, they learn to really see beauty. They also learn harmony, order, and effort. striving for excellence. So that’s what I’m really, what I was really, really proud of them for.

Mr. Jekielek:

Well, quite honestly, every part of the performance I saw just made me really happy. It was wonderful to see these young people. I feel very old, of course, watching all this.

Ms. Zhang:

Yes, watching them, this is my favorite time. It is when the kids are showing what their hard work has accomplished. And I really think that all the efforts are worth it. All those 15 years, all the hard work, and I think it’s worth it. I think, what could you do better than producing a beautiful generation of kids? Work hard, love beauty, and have goodness in them. What else can you ask for? I think that’s just a great thing.

Mr. Jekielek:

Well, Sherry Zhang, it’s such a pleasure to have had you on.

Ms. Zhang:

Thank you, Jan. I’m so glad you accepted my invitation to visit.

This interview has been partially edited for clarity and brevity.