Commentary

If former President Trump can go on liberal CNN, why not Gov. Gavin Newsom on Sean Hannity’s conservative Fox News show? That’s exactly what happened on June 12, with Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3 of the interview posted on YouTube.

I’ve been writing a lot about the governor lately, because not only is he running for president, he’s using California as a test bed for policies he would pursue in the White House.

I don’t know if Hannity read any of my Epoch Times articles, but he brought up many of the points I have over the past two years. I’ll add some nuances he missed.

Border Security

Hannity first brought up border problems. He noted he comes from a family of legal immigrants, who went through the naturalization process. All four of his grandparents came that way—as did three of mine.

Newsom said he wants both border security and “comprehensive immigration reform ... just like Ronald Reagan did in 1989.” Actually it was the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. And critics say its amnesty for 3 million illegal aliens was not followed by adequate “control,” but instead opened the floodgates for subsequent illegal immigration.

On the border wall, Newsom said he had no problems with its existing 650 miles. Hannity asked about Medi-Cal’s $2.7 billion cost to California for treating illegal aliens. Newsom dodged the question by pointing to the higher cost of emergency care—required by law—for illegals without insurance, “on the back end wasting taxpayer money.” But he didn’t address how none of that would be paid if the massive influx of illegals could be halted, or reversed.

Moreover, my experience taking a friend to the emergency room in Irvine last month showed more crowding than ever, even though Orange County’s population has declined.

Newsom kept bringing up the comprehensive immigration reform advanced in the Senate, which Hannity had supported along with such Republicans as Sens. Marco Rubio and John McCain. That was S. 744 from 2013. However, neither he nor Hannity pointed out it also effectively would have been a blanket amnesty encouraging even more illegal immigration.

Hannity brought up President Biden is allowing in 7.5 million illegal immigrants in three years of his presidency. Newsom agreed that was too many, but sidestepped the question by saying we needed to do such things updating visas “and addressing a pathway [to citizenship] that Ronald Reagan would acknowledge.” He brought up “comprehensive reform” again.

On Newsom designating California a “sanctuary state,” the governor said “sanctuary laws have been on the books for decades. ... You want the victims of crimes to come forward and report those crimes,” which they are less likely to do if they will be arrested themselves and deported.

Biden’s Mentality and the Economy

Hannity said he didn’t think Biden was mentally and physically capable of being president of the United States, and he asked if Newsom was getting requests to “primary” the president next year.

“I’m rooting for our president,” Newsom said. “And I have great confidence in his leadership.” He cited Biden’s success on the economy and historic low unemployment. On inflation, he said “we’re headed in the right direction,” and the real problem is global.

Hannity played a video of Biden stumbling through several statements and physical falling down.

“I’ve seen a master class in results the last few years,” Newsom said, bringing up the Infrastructure Act and the CHIPS Act. “Real results, bipartisan results.”

Hannity replied that we’re getting our chips from Taiwan, “which is about to be taken over by China.” And, “Do you think he’s cognitively strong enough to be president?”

Newsom said, “I have conversations with him all the time. Yes.” Prompted by Hannity, Newsom refused to say how many times he’s asked to get into the primary. Which actually is reasonable. And he said there are no circumstances he would get into the primary against Biden.

Newsom also said Republican House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy “got played” by Biden on the debt ceiling deal. “I’m for results.”

Hannity should have asked if Newsom would enter the primary should Biden leave the race. And on the economy, he should have asked about Federal Reserve policy, particularly raising interest rates. But you can’t ask everything.

California Exodus

Hannity next asked about the large numbers of people leaving California under Newsom’s watch, along with corporations. The governor said he was ready for the questions. Hannity showed this graph:

Newsom responded 18 states had declines in population. “California’s was 0.3 percent. You didn’t bring up any of the Red states that had declining population. ... Per capita, more Floridians moved to California, than Californians moved to Florida.” And he pointed out high economic growth in recent years. Inevitably, he said, “We’re on our way to being the fourth largest economy in the world. Eat your heart out, Germany.” And California has more venture capital and more Nobel Laureates than any state.

Hannity brought up that this is the first time in its history California has lost population. He then went to California’s top income tax rate of 13.3 percent, compared to 0 percent for Florida. “That’s redistribution of wealth, isn’t it?”

“That’s a progressive tax policy,” Newsom said. “You’re promoting regressive tax policy. We don’t believe in regressive tax policy. You’re promoting one component of the entire tax system, the 1 percent” of taxpayers at the top.

“With all due respect, you and I may be the 1 percent. The vast majority of the people watching, don’t. You pay more taxes for the middle class in states like Texas than you do in states like California. The American people don’t know this. We have the highest tax rate for the 1 percent. But middle-class families actually pay less than the majority of states in America. Who are you for? Who are you fighting for?”

He emphasized the middle class in Texas and Florida pay more taxes than in California. And California still leads in IPOs for new companies.

Unfortunately, Hannity missed a chance to make a couple of crucial points. In March, a Cato Institute study disproved the contention, advanced up by WalletHub and Newsom, that Californians pay lower taxes than Texans and Floridians. The problem is WalletHub used a “median” American income. But it costs far more than that to live a middle-class lifestyle in California.

Property tax rates certainly are higher in Texas, thanks to California’s excellent Proposition 13 limitations. However, Cato noted, “These factors, especially the difference in home prices, largely offset the tax rate differences between Texas and California. The Zillow Home Value Index is 2.5 times higher in California than it is in Texas. In fact, the median US home value WalletHub used, $244,900, is virtually unheard of in most of California.”

According to Zillow, in mid-June the median home value in Los Angeles is $913,079, or 3.7 times higher. Cato also found the WalletHub data came from 2015. But since then, California gas and cigarette taxes have risen sharply.

Second, although only the top income earners pay that 13.3 percent income tax rate, they’re the ones who create the businesses and jobs for everybody else. When they leave, so do hundreds of thousands of people after them, such as Tesla workers heading with Elon Musk to Texas.

Third, the middle-class in California also pays a heavily progressive 9.3 percent tax, higher than the top rate in almost any other state. It digs in at just $66,295 of income for a single earner and $132,592 for joint filers. But if you live here, you know you need at least $150,000 of income to lead a middle-class lifestyle. Probably more. Especially if you have kids you want to put in private schools to avoid the state’s terrible public schools.

Fourth, although Newsom touted the state’s continued status as a high-tech center and other virtues, that’s a classic case of avoiding a real answer. The real problem is: People are leaving paradise. I’ve lived in Texas and, although it has its charms, it’s nothing like living along the Pacific Coast and having fun in the sun. People leave to make a living and to avoid California’s toxic cultural climate.

Quality of Life

In the shorter Part 2, Hannity turned to “quality of life issues.” He brought up the homeless crisis, and how stores, including Target, Whole Foods, and Walgreens, now are leaving San Francisco from the “smash and grab issue,” in which looters rob and flee without penalty. Newsom conceded the homeless issue “is a disgrace.”

Hannity then played a clip of Newsom 20 years ago, as mayor of San Francisco, announcing his 10-year plan to end homelessness in that city. Newsom said after 10 years the city’s homeless population dropped by 33 percent. “You know what, I’m proud we established a goal, and we did it with the Bush administration, Republicans.”

He continued, “This state has not made progress in the past two decades on homelessness. Housing costs are too high; our regulatory thickets are too problematic; localism has been too impactful, meaning people locally are pushing back against new housing starts and construction. I’ve been here four years. I can’t make up for the fact in 2005 we had an historic number of homeless under a Republican administration,” meaning Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

He said he got 68,000 people off the streets last year and is suing cities that aren’t following housing laws. “I own this. I take responsibility with this. ... Whole Foods did shut down one, it was a bad location. They’re going to build a new one.” And he said he doesn’t favor “defunding” the police.

The fact is, though, the quality of life here is difficult. The very next day after the interview, Lance Christensen, who lost a bid last year to be the state’s superintendent of public instruction, tweeted:

“In the Senate Judiciary Cmte hearing during AB 957, which seeks to leverage kids in custody disputes, @ScottWilkCA declared that is too tough to raise a family in CA & he’s encouraging people to flee the state.”

Feud With Gov. DeSantis and Reparations

In Part 3, Hannity turned to Newsom’s “feud with Florida Gov. DeSantis,” and whether he would debate him, with Hannity hosting. “Love it,” Newsom said. “I’ve offered it. I’ve been trying to debate him for two years.” He attacked DeSantis for bringing a planeload of “migrants” to California. “Why do you use people as pawns. ... This is a stunt. It’s embarrassing.”

Unfortunately, that segment wasn’t productive and was dominated by crosstalk.

I couldn’t find a video link of the segment on reparations for slavery, but the Sacramento Bee wrote a story on it. Giving money to the descendants of slaves could cost the state many billions, according to the California’s Reparations Task Force, which Newsom himself appointed. He replied he’s waiting for the Task Force’s final report, due July 1. He said, “I put out a statement saying reparations is more than just about money. That implies a deeper rationalization of what is achievable, what’s reasonable and what is right, and that’s the balance that we’ll try to advance.”

However, this topic could come back to bite him. When GOP presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy visited a black neighborhood in Chicago last month, The Epoch Times reported:

“South Shore residents and other attendees peppered Ramaswamy with questions throughout the lengthy listening session.

“While the illegal immigrant crisis did come up, many dwelled on another theme: reparations for slavery.

“‘Are you a descendant of American slavery?’ asked one questioner. She described herself as an Israelite.

“Ramaswamy said he was not.

“‘Don’t let people tell you to dismiss the argument about reparation,’ said another questioner. He characterized California as ’serious’ about reparations.

“The questioner pointed out that financial restitution of this sort had an obvious precedent.

“Germany has given upward of $80 billion to survivors of the Holocaust and their heirs.”

Conclusion: Newsom Is Formidable

I’ve said before Newsom is an impressive politician. It was interesting comparing him now to the brief flashback Hannity showed from two decades ago, when Newsom was just starting out as a mayor. He’s now far more assured and polished.

Some of the liberal sites are saying Newsom bested Hannity. Daily Kos’s video headlined, “Gov. Gavin Newsom dissects every Fox News talking point during interview with Sean Hannity.” No, that didn’t happen. Hannity held his own, and scored strong points. Did he make mistakes? Sure. I’ve done probably at least a thousand interviews like this of politicians, and afterwards I always think, “Oh, man, I should have asked this other question.”

Despite Newsom’s defense of Biden, one can’t help but see the contrast between the president’s rapidly declining abilities and an heir apparent at the height of his. Newsom obviously won’t challenge a sitting president. But he now clearly is the favorite should Biden pull out.

And what about a matchup of Newsom vs. Donald Trump? What fun!

John Seiler’s email: writejohnseiler@gmail.com